Firefox OS: Why My Hard Drive & Software are Obsolete

Justin says on April 2nd, 2007 at 9:37 am

For MP3 online-storage and playback, try Media Master (http://www.mediamaster.com/) You can upload all of your MP3’s (I’ve uploaded 6 GB of my library and I have more to go.

Eric says on April 2nd, 2007 at 9:42 am

For mp3s, check out the articles on lifehacker.com on the “Self-Sustaining iPod.”

Granted, they’re not web apps so there is some sort of platform dependance. It might not be truly what you’re searching for.

Nxqd3051990 says on April 2nd, 2007 at 9:50 am

Very nice writing :)

nXqd

Shaan says on April 2nd, 2007 at 10:18 am

Hi Leo

This is the best article I have seen in a very long time, and it is very very true!

I thought you might find the following site helpful on your quest:

http://portableapps.com/

This site has portable versions of well know software, specifically FireFox. You install the software on a USB drive, and there you have it….FireFox OS :)

Scott says on April 2nd, 2007 at 10:34 am

Speaking of Gmail, you praise its “powerful searches.”

It bugs me to no end every time I hear this because it simply isn’t true. Gmail’s searches SUCK! It’s the suckiest thing about Gmail.

1) If you search for Ben then it won’t find Benjamin. Google, you have to be kidding me!

2) It won’t search attachments, which I know Thunderbird does and is very useful. Why on earth not?

3) And finally, you can’t search on anything advanced, such as message size.

So just for the record, Gmail may be great, but it’s searching definitely is not. Thunderbird and most email clients pummel it in this category.

Keith Clarke says on April 2nd, 2007 at 10:40 am

Er, how do you get as far as your browser without an OS?

Richard says on April 2nd, 2007 at 10:47 am

I am sympathetic to browser-based applications, both on and off line. However the online versions give me pause.

The major problem, but not the only one, is with the one-sided Terms of Service that provide users with no recourse or redress when the provider decides to close the account for whatever reason, changes the services provided, or goes out of business.

Until we have a consumers’ online bill of rights this is a dicey proposition.

Dave says on April 2nd, 2007 at 11:01 am

Some good points, but…

-Connections to the internet are less reliable than the electric outlet you use to power your computer. Point being, in your case, no internet = no work. At least with a powered computer with applications on the hard drive you can still get things done.

-Special application programs such as AutoCAD and thousands of others which people use for their jobs may never become available online because there’s too much money to be made in licensing and support contracts etc. etc.

Ernie Oporto says on April 2nd, 2007 at 11:04 am

He didn’t say have no OS. He only said the OS doesn’t matter anymore.

There is one piece of the puzzle that I have yet to see. Google needs to integrate these things as nicely as Yahoo has and then allow you to sync with a PDA. Yes, you can see these apps through their mobile online versions, but they are really crippled and using them is a deathly slow process.

Gautch says on April 2nd, 2007 at 11:14 am

Once Google refreshed the Personalized Homepage i jumped in feet first doing exaclty what your doing. I have several tabs, one for general info, one for my blog, one for each of my film projects.
This allows me to stay focused when working on each project!

I do graphic design and video editing, so im still tethered to my on system OS.
But i have to agree with Scott about the Gmail search. It does suck!

-Gautch
Gautch.wordpress.com

Sachman Bhatti says on April 2nd, 2007 at 11:27 am

Don’t matter? And I suppose these websites are hosted on websites? I suppose you code your websites on a website, and compile it? For “users” in the sense of people who just are doing their work or their homework the web can replace much of what they do. However, the debates really are between power users who want to do more than just write a document.

The web as a medium was built for document retrieval. We’ve hacked and worked with that model a lot to make it seem like an application but FreeBSD, Linux, Windows, and Mac OS X aren’t going anywhere.

Walden15 says on April 2nd, 2007 at 11:29 am

While I agree with the main jist of your article in that most commercial OS-based applications are no longer neccessary, that’s no reason to abandon your OS altogther (were that even possible)

This would be great if it was geared to people using tablet pcs or iphones to access the internet – but they’d still need an OS to navigate to the web.

And how do we burn cd’s? Watch movies? Play games? And don’t even get me started on newsgroups and torrent sites…

Groovymarlin says on April 2nd, 2007 at 11:49 am

I’m using a lot of the same tools. The only thing that scares me is Gmail. There have been several outages for certain sets of users recently; during one my friend couldn’t log in to her account for hours. I realized I have EVERYTHING in Gmail and use it as a reference for lots of business and personal things. If I lose access, I have to wait and trust they’ll restore service and not lose my data – and since it’s free, I don’t really have much leverage to complain. That being said, I have not stopped using Gmail or any other Google service, simply because I, like you, think they are the best. I am looking into ways to back up my data and email though.

Thanks for the tip on Google personalized desktop. I use Netvibes for my personal start page and feed reader, but the Google page will be perfect for organizing access to all my Google services!

Anne Helmond says on April 2nd, 2007 at 12:32 pm

A great alternative for Google is Zoho which offers online software for word processing, spreadsheets, presentations, database, calender, wiki, planning software and more!

Zoho

Anne Helmond says on April 2nd, 2007 at 12:33 pm

A great alternative to Google is Zoho which offers online software for word processing, spreadsheets, presentations, database, calender, wiki, planning software and more!

Zoho

Mika says on April 2nd, 2007 at 1:13 pm

For music: mp3tunes.com

Unlimited storage for free (or almost). I’m using it for over a year now and loving it.

Jeff says on April 2nd, 2007 at 2:28 pm

Great article, I just started reading a few weeks ago. It appears we are not alone in the way we use google. Keep up the good work.

Jennifer Kyrnin says on April 2nd, 2007 at 3:35 pm

I don’t disagree with the premise, but as I found out last week, this will only become realistic when battery life for computers lasts more than 2-3 hours.

I was taking notes in the conference I was at, and the wireless networking cut my normal battery life down from 4-6 hours to around 2-3 hours. It was ugly.

I’ll be ready to do all my work online when I get a computer that will stay on without needing a plug for an entire business day.

Tuomas says on April 2nd, 2007 at 3:41 pm

I could never take this route.

If privacy doesn’t mean anything to you and your needs are light, sure: upload all your stuff to third party servers accross the net.

But you’ve got to take into consideration that you’re stashing your data under propietary systems (data recovery in the future, changed TOSs,) and effectively sharing it with company (marketing, customer profiles)

Pelly says on April 2nd, 2007 at 4:10 pm

How true …
All the basic-apps you need are online indeed.

“The Net” doesn’t do some tasks in detail yet, but it does get you there.
It all depends on personal mindsetting and how YOU use your PC.
What do you expect of it ?

It would be a nice experiment to see if you can survive without a HDD in your PC.
I think it is possible using Knoppix, or Bart’s PE on a USB, or a hardware thin client. Include some Portable apps in the image and you are well on your way to living on the net.

Great article !

Pelly

Leo Babauta says on April 2nd, 2007 at 4:45 pm

Great comments, everyone, and some excellent points regarding online apps have been brought up. Let me just say that I acknowledge in the article that online apps are far from perfect and that a lot of work must be done. But they’ve also come a long way, just in the last year or two, and I believe they’re headed in the right direction. And for someone who’s needs are simple, like mine, they’re good enough for now.

I also agree with Richard that an online Consumer Bill of Rights is needed, and it’s only a matter of time before enough users get ripped off that some kind of legislation or movement is started.

Regarding Gmail’s searches: I agree that there are things that need to be improved, and there may be better searches out there. But it works great for me, and there’s no doubt that the searches are fast. For online email, I haven’t seen it beat, and it’s definitely better than many desktop apps I’ve used. I never gave Thunderbird enough of a chance to really test it, simply because I needed an online solution that I can access from any computer. Gmail satisfies that while Thunderbird doesn’t.

jappsi says on April 2nd, 2007 at 5:17 pm

I agree with every post, allthough in my opinion it is headed for a different way.

Connection to the internet gets cheaper day by day and even the most deserted areas slowly get broadband. This is why I think that in future we will host our stuff on our own. We’ll all have a server at home that runs apps like those mentioned in this article.

This also removes the whole TOS/third-party thingie and everyone can deside whether he wants to make this file available for public or not.

Schnooks says on April 2nd, 2007 at 5:37 pm

RE: Firefox OS.
I couldn’t agree more with the direction you point out things are heading toward. The debate b\w OS’ is superfluous if the browser can mediate all into one language. These are rudimentary, but seminal, structures.
Not sure about mp3 storage, but I’m growing fond of http://www.finetune.com. Personal radio, flexible, community based. Cool & easy.
That’s the point here, I think: if you take someone who knows NOTHING about a computer, wouldn’t you start with the GMail apps listed in the article? Cool & easy…

Lady A/ says on April 2nd, 2007 at 5:39 pm

The article mentioned a list manager on the web – if you need a simple “to-do” list or reminder app – Firefox has an extension add-in called “Reminderfox”.
Also the add-on called “AdBlock” is awesome! Never be bothered by annoying ad’s on a web page again. I hate having to browse the web using I.E. since you are bombarded by very annoying ad’s on virtually every page you view.
The add-on’s can be found at:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:1/cat:all/sort:popular

Fred says on April 2nd, 2007 at 5:46 pm

Great ideas – I’ve been carrying a key-chain USB drive that has documents that I access every day (stock watchlists, to-do lists, different documents I’m writing, basically anything too big or cumbersome to put on my PDA) – this would help eliminate that extra weight on my keychain.

However…

The privacy aspect worries me, as well as the backup situation. The reason I put the documents I use on a USB drive was because I needed access to them on a regular, uninterrupted basis. I’d suggest combining the suggestions in the post with some sort of local backup system – that way you’re always covered.

Ben says on April 2nd, 2007 at 6:02 pm

Good article. My colleagues and I were discussing this before about how processing power is continually shifting from server to the users machine. With the old mainframes we saw the dumb-terminals. Then came the desktop PC, and then we rediscovered citrix.

As you rightly point out, the average user could actually work using web applications rather than desktop applications.

Couple you missed off which we find useful here are:

Basecamp (project management) and Freshbooks (Invoicing.. boring but necessary for businesses).

Luigi Montanez says on April 2nd, 2007 at 6:13 pm

For GTD, I like the new service called Nozbe:

http://www.nozbe.com/

It’s in free beta right now.

Pawel says on April 2nd, 2007 at 7:50 pm

Online apps usually offer less features then a comparible shareware application. Many charge monthly subscription fees or put on so many adds that you have to avoid clicking. And worst of all you don’t own your data.

KylePott says on April 2nd, 2007 at 8:24 pm

Great post, Leo. You’ve got the same setup as me!

betsbillabong says on April 2nd, 2007 at 9:18 pm

I for one will never work primarily online for many of the reasons posted, although I could see it making sense if someone was constantly moving around a bunch of different computers. But in that case why not just carry a small laptop around?

“Given a decent internet connection…” — that’s a big one. I more often than not find myself working without a decent internet connection… without an internet connection at all. Most NYC cafes do not have wireless, and NYC residents are quick to protect their networks.

And I can’t abide the idea of my stuff being lost due to a company going out of business, etc.

I agree with you on the simplicity thing, but I really think it’s far more complicated to do everything online than to use the simple free software that comes with your computer.

styleygeek says on April 2nd, 2007 at 11:23 pm

I have started to move in that direction myself, but it makes me a little nervous handing over everything to Google like that. Already, I have found that my blog, my feeds reader and my gmail are often all down at the same time (all google-based) and it’s not too much of a stretch to start to worry that if something went wrong or Google became evil, I might end up having no access to my files, my blog, my photos, my feeds, my email, my music and my calendar.

And for most of these applications, it is difficult and time-consuming to back them up to something off-line.

Or maybe I’m just paranoid.

Leo Babauta says on April 2nd, 2007 at 11:50 pm

Regarding Dave’s excellent point about the reliability of internet connections: I agree, this is a problem, although I haven’t encountered it yet. What will help is the trend to provide off-line capability. So, I expect Gmail, for example, to eventually allow me to work off-line when I’m not connected, and then sync to the online database once I am connected.

Again, this hasn’t been a problem yet for me, but it’s a good point.

Regarding Tuomas’ comment on proprietary systems … I also agree with this point, and think that the growing open-source movement will eventually win out. For now, I haven’t had a problem with data ownership or privacy issues. I don’t think google has the time to be looking through my documents, which are pretty innocuous anyway. Most of my stuff is eventually published on the internet, anyway, so I have no real privacy issues.

Shankar Ganesh says on April 3rd, 2007 at 1:04 am

What do you do if you can’t access the internet?

William Ryall says on April 3rd, 2007 at 1:33 am

So, when did you buy your GOOG shares?

I am a google fanboy too, but honestly some comparsions to other products would have been nice.

Paul says on April 3rd, 2007 at 2:00 am

Great discussion. Thanks to everyone. I’ve been thinking of doing everything online for years. The future is now. Admittedly, it’s not perfect…..yet.

Other Ryan says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:28 am

http://www.mediamaster.com/

Media Master is a nice solution for an online music player. Just upload your music and play it from anywhere.

Shahzam says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:33 am

What about us WoW players…? I can’t seem to get it to run on linux…

Jason says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 am

I have a 1.83Ghz iMac with 1GB RAM and Firefox 2.0 constantly crashes on me.

I’ve tried reinstalling several times, but as much as I do like FF, Safari is much more stable.

I do sorta agree with you, but I still prefer OS X to Windows.

filiberto says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 am

You are not proposing Firefox. You are proposing Google… are you so sure this is freedom from a system?

Joe says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:40 am

Cool travel videos are here: zsmith.org

David Malloy says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:42 am

If you love Firefox and Google, then you’ll love GSPACE!! I created an extra GMail account just for this reason – so that I could upload GIGS of music to my GSPACE and not have to worry. You can essentially set up multiple GMAIL accounts and have all your MP3’s (assuming you have more than 2.8GB and growing). Check it out!
http://www.getgspace.com

Aman says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:42 am

Hi.
All I’d suggest about this post is to change its title. It should be called
“how to flush privacy and control down the drain in one easy step” :)
Seriously, though, I would never do this kind of online work for the simple reason that I like having control over my own data and I like to at least try to keep that data private. It seems to me that, unless you’re extreemly poor or need extraordinary convenience, a laptop is thousands of times better not only because of the reliability issues pointed out above but because of the privacy and control issues which have gotten short shrift in the comments.

Jackson says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:51 am

I don’t believe Picassa stores your pictures online, it just organizes them and allows you to edit them online.

nikowolf says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:58 am

yeah third party proprietary will always be a problem because companies like that sell profiles and user information all the time… and the thing about we’ll eventually all have our own server and stuff… duh… i guess that means you are using your own hard drive and data storage devices… man some of you people need to get a clue…and no i don’t like the possibility of someone looking at my information… here’s an idea…tell the government to use online storage see what they tell you… ill give the same answer…

Nick says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:01 am

I believe a lot of people are missing the point here. First off, the idea isn’t that the OS is obsolete, or that it’s going anywhere soon, it’s just that it doesn’t matter as much which one you use because there are few programs that most users need that aren’t online. That’s another point: MOST users. Because most people who use computers just use them for email, documents, and maybe pictures. I majored in computer science in school (I am graduating next month), so my computer is my life, but I completely agree with everything this article says. My OS (currently Vista on one machine, XP on another, and Ubuntu on a third) serves only a few keys purposes. For example, I do most of my programming and hosting on my Vista and Ubuntu machines, but my XP machine is little more than a print server. I use Firefox with many extensions, and most of the time, if I’m on the computer, I’m on Firefox. Another thing that the article didn’t mention is Meebo (meebo.com), an online chat client that allows you to log into AIM, Yahoo! Messenger, MSN Messenger, and I believe ICQ simultaneously. As far as Gmail goes: there are some quirks in the search, but if you know how to search right, 99% of the time you can find exactly what you’re looking for. Also, if Gmail is down for a day, I don’t have a problem because I use Google Desktop. I use it mostly for searching my computer, but it also has the added advantage of being able to index my Gmail, and allow me to search and view it even if I’m not online. The other option would be to use POP3 forwarding to have Gmail send a copy of your emails to Outlook or Thunderbird, which solves the problem of search AND storage during outages. Besides, all of your email is stored online whether you like it or not; anything that you get in Thunderbird or Outlook is online somewhere, and is just forwarded to that local app via POP3 or IMAP, so privacy issues are going to be there no matter what. Google isn’t just a group of low-class hackers, they are just as legitimate as Microsoft, but they have an incredible business plan, as well as geniuses who work for them. During my recent job search, I got high-paying job offers from high-ranking companies, including financial companies and defense contractors, but Google didn’t even give me an interview. Most of the people that work there have PhD’s and have done some incredible things in their field. Same thing goes for companies like Amazon.com (believe it or not). Now, I’ve gone off on a huge tangent, but the point is, this article is right on the money, and some of the comments people are making about it makes it look like they didn’t really read the article before commenting. There, a long story to make a short point. Enjoy!

Tom says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:01 am

One word for you – DEVELOPMENT.

In a web browser? Not likely.

nikowolf says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:02 am

oh and yeah he is proposing firefox and not google because you need a browser to get to google… jeez…

Romeo says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:02 am

Try Photoshop Online o Illustrator…
I love the idea and yes most our stuff can be online, but this is not what an OS is there for.

Tom says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:03 am

In fact I have another issue with this – what happens when you want to work on the train? Or in the sticks?

Pavlos Georgiadis says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:07 am

OS != (Collection of applications)

Other than the above, the world that you describe, may not be as free (as in free) as you imagine.

Joshua says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:10 am

What about *real* games? Not the exiting java based crap you find today? I am talkin, Quake, WoW, Ultima Online, Dungeon Siege…

Max says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:12 am

While I agree with some of the things you have said, I believe that Software, your Hard Drive etc will only become obsolete when better technology emerges. Not death by Internet.

Zate says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:12 am

Your about 2 years too late. This is old news.

kibosh says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:15 am

For those not willing to break the tether between with real hard-disked files – foldershare.com is a great, free way to access real files remotely.

Jason says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:18 am

Funny how the debate nowadays already HAD nothing to do with the operating system… you’re right, it’s not Windows vs. Mac vs. Linux- It’s Mac vs. PC.

That’s important to note, because that still matters quite a bit. Do I want luxury machine that costs twice as much for less power, is hard to upgrade, and still has compatibility issues? Or do I want to find the best hardware, the best price, or heck, BUILD the machine myself?

Yeah, THAT is the debate.

Dan says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:19 am

http://zoho.com/

This site allows for docs, spreadsheet, slideshows much like google apps, but also offers wiki support and setup and a growing number of new technologies. almost all for free. One of the coolest things I think that zoho does (i don’t know if google apps do these) but you can embed your work within html, much like a youtube video.

Zukero says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:21 am

I can’t disagree more with you.
Web based apps are cool, gmail especially. But you can’t say “Do eveything online” and “OS doesn’t matter”.
Simple example, have you noticed the ads on gmail are based on your emails’ contents ? This means google analyses the content of your emails. What about your documents and spreadsheets ? No privacy.
Furthermore, you become dependent of your ISP, and your online app provider.
So web-apps have this limitations. Performance-wise, they just can’t compete with an OS based application.
Tom also points two interesting points.

Other point, your browsing experience does not rely only on firefox. Firefox uses your OS, and if your OS is crappy, or is not fully compatible with your hardware, or does not have an ergonomy that suits you, your experience will not get better only by using web-based apps.

Last point. Who do you really think has more chances to get their HDD erased or attacked by pirates ? Your little desktop, or a corporate server ?

Just one question : do you work for google ? or do you have any stocks ? or are you just another fanboy ?

Daniel says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:22 am

Well, I hope you consider that relying on third party companies and hosting your files on their servers you effectively lose control over your intellectual property. Once those companies decide to cease their free services you will find yourself in a really bad position.

I would never host any personal data or even data important for my business on free hosting services.

You should always have at least current backup copies of your files.

Firefox is not an OS and it will ever be. Just using a lot of web-based services does not mean that operating systems become irrelevant.

if it works for you, fine. But I can only warn everybody not to completely rely on these free services. Make backups, have alternate plans

JC says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:26 am

Good article, but like most things in life, you we’re the last to think of it… well until someone else comes along and claims a “new” idea, again :S

pida says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:28 am

Not to forget, your dashboard widgets in Firefox:

http://www.widgetop.com

Jez says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:30 am

Well, i just took your advice and transferred a screenplay i’m writing from Word into Google Docs.
It promptly removed all the line spacing.
Word never did that.
I’m going back.
Hey, i tried.

Joey Bagodonuts says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:31 am

Thanks for the Google commercial, really meaningful. Not.

Leo says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:35 am

Hey Leo,

I completely agree with you about having an “on-line OS” is the future. And a lot of people out there is advocating the same thing.

But there’s a point that (I think) have not been being discussed as it should: What about privacy? Don’t you be concerned of leaving your personal documents in the hands of a third party?

Regards,

Leo

Apreche says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:35 am

You are correct that for most people, the browser is all that matters. However, there are a few things the browser still can’t do.

First off, it can’t handle your media library. You still need iTunes, WMP, Amarok, etc.

Second, it can’t IM well. Yes, Meebo exists, but it is not sufficient for being the primary IM application. I know from using it and Gmail chat that you often lose conversations when they are tied to the browser. And if you want Skype in the browser, just forget it.

Three, it can’t edit images. There is no GIMP or Photoshop equivalent in the browser.

The last thing is that almost every business that has computers has a single business-essential proprietary application. For example, a dentist as a windows-only X-Ray software. A sporting arena has software to manage the game statistics. An accountant has special accounting software. A stock broker uses special trading software.

Everything these people do can be done on any OS with any browser, except for one thing. That one thing is what makes them Windows/IE/Outlook/Exchange users for the life of their business. Unless you start serving people’s very specific needs with web-based applications, there will always be different OSes.

herval says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:35 am

Feels like google paid you for that one, aye?

MacDoug says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:38 am

Call me old fashioned, but this putting all your eggs into one basket (Google’s) seems a bit risky. Not to mention depending upon a reliable internet connection. At 33 I may already be turning into this generation’s version of an online curmudgeon – I don’t trust those sites with my data, I trust my laptop, or at best an online service that *I pay for*. Anything that’s offered for free can go away at any time, with no warning, and you’re basically up a creek.

Anonymous says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:38 am

Ahem, games, games, games, games…

Aside from World of Warcraft, you need a Windows PC to play anything. Don’t get me started with games on linux…

Philip says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:42 am

Often thought of a Firefox OS, ie applications working on your computer with Firefox as the OS. It does quite a few already via add-ons.
Boot into Firefox instead of Windows, Mac, Linux? I don’t see why not, but then I’m not a techie.

sheva says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:44 am

Sorry if I think this is mere google propaganda… im happy with my OS and my hard drive, but thanks for asking.

Kevin says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:48 am

For your mp3’s, I’ve found http://www.mp3tunes.com very useful.

It is an online service, you synchronize with your computer, and then you can play tunes online, thorough their flash-based player (streamed).

Basic (free) service is 1 GB, but they upgrade a certain amount of accounts to Unlimited storage for free.

(Mine was upgraded in this fashion)

Sencer says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:48 am

Please try the following: Download the DSL (damnsmallinux) Distribution, it is only 50 MB and boots from USB/CD. It includes firefox. It’s a pretty nifty package, and if your pc has more than 128MB it can run entirely in RAM, when started with the toram option. In fact go ahead and disconnect your harddrive before you start using DSL.

I dare you to exclusively use that distribution for one month. In fact ignore the many other included applications and the extensions available. I am curious whether you will feel that you are missing something. If you come to the conclusion that you didn’t miss anything after a month (or even forgot that you were using DSL), you’ll truly have given weight to the opinion to the opinion that OS doesn’t matter. You will even benefit from a) less noise due to the missing harddrive, and b) a very fast and snappy desktop-experience.

Are you going to do it?

James says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:53 am

You know… you should carry around portable versions of Firefox with all of your extensions and things. You can put a copy of each version of FireFox (Windows, OS X, Linux) and have them all pull their info from one profile. It works… I’ve done it, and you’d be able to carry your FireFox everywhere you go, even public libraries.

seht brundle says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:58 am

What you are saying is that you dont need the power of any applications besides Firefox.

Your OS isnt obsolete, because Firefox doesnt do the core job of the OS – provide an interface to your hardware.

samuba says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:00 am

http://www.mp3tunes.com THE answer for mp3 in the internet. Im using it for 2 Months now and its really cool.

http://www.netvibes.com for start page, much better then the google thing = more/better stuff

Planner says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:01 am

I simply wouldn’t want my documents spread out over the net like this. Anything I want to use whilst mobile, I put on my usb stick which is attached to my keyring and loaded with apps from portableapps.com

kev says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:01 am

and all those application servers will be running …….. windows!!!

Misfit says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:07 am

I think people read every third or fourth word (more common than admitted). In short, I found the article useful. I choose to go with the spirit of the article which I read as freeing oneself from OpSys dependency. I will continue to use the hard-drive and DVD Burn archives of data, largely due to Big Brother, but I see some advantages here I may have overlooked. Thanks! Thanks also to those who posted other useful links.

Scaredy Cat says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:11 am

One word: Privacy

Gerry says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:17 am

My $.02 to the list:

- Check http://www.netvibes.com to put everything together. It’s faster and leaner than the Google personalized home page.
- To keep the bookmarks in synch for all your Firefox, use a plug-in called Foxmarks.
- If you still depend on desktop calendars, use Calgoo (http://www.calgoo.com), it runs on any desktop OS and combines your Google calendar with Outlook or iCal as well.
Now you’re done.

hybrid says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:24 am

dude, in the unlikely event that the internet crashes, this would be one of the few times we’ll regret technology;)

but for developers like us, impossible. i’d need meh OS for photoshop, video editing, and other stuff online apps just wouldn’t be able to do;)

rasti says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:32 am

This was the best definition i read of what WEB2.0 is about.
Bravo !
“The web is the computer”
Why?
Because the Webbrowser is the biggest common ground for apps, and the better connected.
Try to run a Windows mobile 5 app on a Palm (not to mention a earlier windows mobile version).
Why i cannot run a Mac app straight into my Windows Xp?
Get the picture?
Inspiring Post

Quijote says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:51 am

Yes, I generally agree with this article but, what if someone finds your password and deletes your files?

Bree says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:53 am

this is just and advertisement for Google and it apps….
very dissappointed…..
for myself and where I live and the places i work I don’t always have an internet connection… what then smartass

Christopher says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:56 am

I recommend checking out another app for your collection: http://www.stikkit.com

The smartest ‘intelligent agent’ I’ve seen yet…

John Smittye says on April 3rd, 2007 at 10:03 am

it’s really hard to take you as credible in any way when your article ignores the fact that–YOU NEED AN OS TO RUN A COMPUTER AND HOST WEB APPLICATIONS.

in other words, obviating the entire premise of your article.

why not retitle it “Why my applications are obsolete”? because then, it’d just be another run of the mill article on the same old crap, eh?

Mauro De Giorgi says on April 3rd, 2007 at 10:03 am

i don’t have photoshop and dreamweaver online ;)

Steve Roesler says on April 3rd, 2007 at 10:04 am

Leo, this is a thought-provoking and affirming post.

I realized not long ago that the bulk of my work was being done through online apps. It didn’t happen with a lot of foresight, but a little helpful app here and a little app there started to make a difference.

Not sure why all the hand-wringing and negativity. It is clear to me that the spirit of your post is all about what’s possible without the hard drive and what we might have a look at.

Thanks for taking time to do a lengthy set of examples…good food for thought.

Gin says on April 3rd, 2007 at 10:26 am

Very good points all, but the last line — “Someday, none of us will, and the decades-old OS debate will be a thing of the past” — is utter BS.

What you’ve done is show how folks with very low-powered computers can get by easily with online services. It would work for those who don’t even have computers of their own at all, using those at the library or their friends’ machines. You have NOT shown us all how to replace our OS and hard drives, as a lot of us LIKE PRIVACY, may have unreliable connections, play games that can’t be played entirely online and use apps that have no online equivalent. And, simply put, there will always be those among us who prefer to have our apps and saved files on our own computers, and the world isn’t going to switch to online-only because it would be foolish to ignore such a large part of the computer-using population.

Brian Carnell says on April 3rd, 2007 at 10:32 am

“Second, it can’t IM well. Yes, Meebo exists, but it is not sufficient for being the primary IM application.”

Completely disagree on this one. I’ve been using Meebo for a few months now for all of my IM needs, and never had any problems with it. In all, it is much better than the various multi-IM apps out there.

Anonymou says on April 3rd, 2007 at 10:33 am

I think your age is showing. It’s obvious that you don’t listen to music, play games, etc. on your computer. You also have an unhealthy trust of online providers of these remote services–again showing your age and perhaps a lack of imagination.

NB: Firefox is not an OS.

Jon says on April 3rd, 2007 at 10:39 am

Is this a real Story or just an ad for Google apps????

Lindsay says on April 3rd, 2007 at 10:42 am

I think most people are missing the point of his argument about the OS. He’s not saying that you no longer need ANY OS, but rather that WHICH OS you choose doesn’t matter as long as you can operate a web browser (in this case, FireFox) on it.

I heartily agree. In a few more years, we’ll have even more robust browser-based applications that will make all but extremely specialized and processor intensive applications obsolete on a local harddrive. Even Microsoft’s latest “Flash-like” browser-compatible technology (WPF) is going to promote the fact that you can create almost identical user experiences in the browser and in software on the desktop.

And for those applications that still absolutely require the ability to run natively in an OS, we’ll just carry them around on our 100GB+ flash memory keychain drives and run them in software emulations of the preferred OS (virtual machines) and not worry about what physical hardware we have to plug them into. Most “computers” will just be appliances that we can either run a browser on or run a virtual machine on via a simplified and minimal OS. Companies that produce software with those requirements will just provide you with a VM containing the software that has a customized OS to run their software optimally.

We’re not there yet, but we’re well on the way. Give it a few years.

Daniel says on April 3rd, 2007 at 10:42 am

My biggest problem with the “Online OS” is security and privacy. You have everything almost everything on Google and depend on it for security. Once slip up, one key-logger, and your entire online existence in files is compromised. At least with the files stored locally I can be more cautious with my files and privacy.

I can see that for much of your daily work that the online thing could work. Frankly it would probably work for 90% of the world. However for developers (includes but not limited to programmers, graphic artists, engineers, etc.) it still benefits them to have local systems and networks to handle their work load. PC Gamers are another category as the games they often play could not be fully transported over the network. They still need local storage to handle the content.

Pensador says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:01 am

What about Wikipedia?

Paul says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:03 am

You guys are missing the point and apparently just trying to be more pedantic than the last poster. OF COURSE some OS needs to present the browser; the author is merely stating that it doesn’t matter WHICH OS you use. Does it really matter if you use Google Apps from IE, Firefox, Safari, Opera – on Windows, Max, Linux? Platform distinctions are becoming a matter of preference than requirement.

“But what about this one particular edge case???” Please…stop it. Obviously this model doesn’t fit everyone. No one is saying a browser is going to replace that one arcane DOS/Win9x/parallel port app – where did you read that? And yes, braniac, the web apps need to be hosted somewhere…great analysis – you must have a PhD! However, probably 80% of the population will be able to get 90% of what they need out of future (and some current) online apps.

I’m sure the Google suite is mentioned only because in many cases they have been involved in pushing interactive web content in new and exciting directions, and because this isn’t a recommendation but merely an example of how it might be accomplished.

Ernie Oporto says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:05 am

Another vote for stikkit. It even interfaces with a number of tools such as IMified and the above Google apps, enabling you to use it through an IM client on a cell phone.

Scott says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:06 am

Instead of Google Docs & Spreadsheets, try Zoho instead. Their Office plugin lets you store the documents online, but edit them in Word or Excel. Then if you get home, you can just log into Zoho and continue working on them online. They also integrate with Box.net and Omnidrive.

Their creator app lets you create DabbleDB/Access like applications online. They even have a Wiki application.

n.b. I don’t work for Zoho and they haven’t compensated me in any way other than making a great set of applications.

Conan says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:11 am

Interesting. I notice that the original author assumes that EVERYONE now has broadband. (in the US). Or will get it in the near future.

Actual fact is, most not only don’t have it, but can’t get it at the moment and probably can’t get it for years or decades to come.

Conan

Skeptical says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:11 am

Hype like this makes me mad. Contrary to what you might like to believe, the Internet is neither ubiquitous nor reliable (and I mean reliable in the conventional sense, not the communications sense – i.e. it’ll be there when you need it).

Need to work on that document? Sorry, your ISP has scheduled maintenance (or worse, an unscheduled outage).

Aside from all that; leave all my data in the hands of some company, possibly located off-shore? No thanks.

As much as I respect what Google have done, they are still a public company and at the mercy of the market. If, tomorrow, they weren’t there, could you still meet that deadline?

Maren Leizaola says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:17 am

Whilst the article is true, the whole piece looks just an advertorial or paid testament for Google.

Serious Leo, you should write articles and give other companies a fair share of review. Maybe next time you want to refer to other services as you don’t sound like yet another I-sold-2-Google writer.

Mel says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:18 am

Hi, my name is Average Reader! I skim your articles for about 5 minutes and come up with angry comebacks and “issues” which have already been addressed in the article itself! Then I leave a pissy message to mock you, when I’m really just advertising my own ignorance!

To continue…

d00d, did Google pay you?
omg what happens if there’s no internet connection!
You need an OS to run a browser, dumb@$$…
I’m a webdesiger, dipshit, I need Photoshop, this won’t work for me, retard…

Honestly, why can’t every single article you write be specifically addressed so as to be useful to every computer user on the planet? What is wrong with you???

Chris says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:18 am

Firefox makes for a pretty poor user experience for me, at least on the Mac. It integrates poorly with other applications, is very slow compared to its WebKit-based rivals, and the huge library of extensions are, for the most part, shoddy (since there is no formal QC for extensions). I generally eschew the approach of having one application to do everything, because such solutions generally do nothing particularly well. I like stand-alone, highly-focused applications for a particular task.

Jay says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:23 am

To echo a comment above about Gmail’s search not finding “Benjamin” when searching for “Ben”. That one doesn’t irk me so bad as not finding “Ben’s” when searching for “Ben”, which is just plain annoying.

Also, I have over a terabyte of data between my pictures from the digital camera, my CDs ripped to mp3, and my DVDs ripped to avi. Until someone can reliably store huge amounts of data online and make it easy to retrieve my hard drives are not going anywhere (all 7 of them).

calenti says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:26 am

One comment – security. I’m sure Google intends their motto of Don’t Be Evil but I gotta believe that like everything else in the world, their implementation might leave something to be desired (ask those Chinese dissidents).

Orrin says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:28 am

If all of your files are online why would you have a need for and “can’t live without” FireFTP?

pcorajr says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:31 am

Nice Article, but your computer needs are to simplistic and only apply to about 2 percent of computer users.

I love the fact that there are online FREE options but they are still limited and do not apply to the corporate world. maybe a college student or a home user could use these tools with out and OS and be able to accomplish something but thats where the train stops.

You failed to realize that for your browser to work you need a OS, what if the connection to the internet is down? then you cannot do anything. What if you wanted to go on the road with you laptop?

Web applications are great but they will never ever replace the OS.

John Bailo says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:34 am

That was Netscape’s argument back in 1997 — “The Browser is the Desktop”.

But times have changed and rich clients are making a comeback — meaning, that the OS, the real OS, has become more critical than ever.

Gaming for instance — I can’t do real time, high speed gaming, in a browser.

But what I need is perfect execution of video, audio, data updates, disk/memory management and so on.

No — the browser has always been retrograde. The future is more complicated, better performing, more diverse and object rich devices — requiring a superior OS such as Linux.

bill says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:51 am

Trusting all your business and personal data to a single, enormous corporation with who-knows-what motives is not very smart.

Gmail and other Google products are, in many ways, fantastic, but that is no reason to give Google (or Yahoo, or Microsoft, or anyone else) your data. For free, no less.

Please show me the safeguards against them using your data for whatever purpose they wish (including competing against you, marketing you, or otherwise profiting from what you give them).

snupher says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:51 am

I see were you are coming from and for the most part, you are 100% correct. The problem is that there are some fundamental flaus in your thesis. For one, if you are storing all your files online, you are going to need an OS to contain those files as soon as you download them. (This rings especially true when it comes to MP3s and MP4s.) Even if it is a text based OS, an OS is needed to tell the drivers were to put and where to find those files. Now for text files, yes I can see how you could just put them on Google’s docs & Ssheets, but there in lies another problem. You are relying so heavily on Google. If Google were to simply up and vanish due to varied circustances you would be up a creek. A dirty feces filled creek, and you would have no paddle. Now, I am not going to sit here and submit that Google has any chance of just up and disappearing from the interweb, but there are other threats as well. Do you realize how many malicious attacks Google gets a day? Let me tell you, it is alot. And to sit around blindly assuming that one of those attacks won’t get in at least within the next couple years is ridiculous. So, someone breaks into googles servers and snatches your stuff, or completely wipes the servers memory. Then what? Are you able to back up files? Sure on another site, but you see if you are constantly backing up files on random sites the security of your sensitive information becomes more and more questionable. Chances are, you should just stick to a worry free text based OS (just something to help organize your files) and then keep working online.

But, I do like your view on the matter, very unique and handy.

tugger says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:52 am

Amazing isn’t it, the fact that so many people missed the point of this post..

Idiots, he’s not telling you to use what he’s using, he telling you that he’s using them to acheive his own objective.

The google apps work for him, other more positive posters have suggested alternatives.
If you can’t contribute, then stop wasting your parents internet bandwidth with pointless abuse and get a life.

Jeff says on April 3rd, 2007 at 12:06 pm

“With all my files saved online, there’s no need to back up these files, which can be time-consuming and troublesome.” – while this may hold true for the big companies in the short term, there is no guarantee that these will be around come the next big burst of the bubble. How many people “lost” their MP3s after laboring to verify ownership of the original CDs with mp3.com (or whatever that site was?). Likewise, who’s to say that Google will guarantee to restore your data if there is a massive crash on their servers?

Surge says on April 3rd, 2007 at 12:19 pm

For mp3s, use radioblogclub.com. Granted you can’t upload (I don’t think), but you can find almost everything and stream it.

known says on April 3rd, 2007 at 12:26 pm

http://www.divshare.com offers unlimited online storage.
I frequently upload my file there.

Max says on April 3rd, 2007 at 12:29 pm

All this would be super fine, if it were not for security. It gives me shivers knowing that some technicians can read my e-mails, look through my files at will, etc.

TheAbysmal says on April 3rd, 2007 at 1:04 pm

Your proposal is interesting, and similar to my idea of a BIOS that simply loads a browser and connects to the Web OS of choice. It would work great for many, many people. I do not think the “My OS will beat up your OS debate” will die off any time in the conceivable future, however.
For starters, those Web OSs, and any other web apps for that matter, are hosted by machines running classical OSs, so the debate really just gets pushed into the realm of web application developers further from home users. Never really goes away.
It is almost like the prevailing notion that abstraction is the “way to go” in developing software applications. In the end, all that abstraction must boil down to the real nuts and bolts, somewhere, some how. The question really becomes “In whose hands do you want the majority of power?”

pr0xy k1ll3r says on April 3rd, 2007 at 1:38 pm

Your software may be obsolete, your OS? No!
You still need your OS to go onto the internet…

kris says on April 3rd, 2007 at 1:39 pm

You have officially lost your mind. Let’s hope you don’t loose your network connection.

Marc says on April 3rd, 2007 at 1:56 pm

You eloquently said what many of us techs were thinking. CHEERS!

Go Firefox, Beat IE

Philip says on April 3rd, 2007 at 2:07 pm

“Plus, if you like their great desktop software”

Looks like you require an OS there. ;)
One problem I have with Picasa is its reliance on the desktop app for majority of organization work. That’s why I use Flickr, it’s all online — and I can store my original size images there, too.

Lackey says on April 3rd, 2007 at 2:16 pm

exception doesnt play CS
throws OS.Firefox out the window!

hah!

Eddie Truman says on April 3rd, 2007 at 2:24 pm

What happens when your internet connection packs up?
Even in the priveleged First World this happens.
What about those still toiling with dial up connections?
This debate reminds me so much of the proclamations in the mid 1990’s of the arrival of the “thin client” terminals and the end of history for locally storred apps.
It’s not going to happen, my internaet connection is inaccesable a couple of times a month, my Dell desktop has worked every day since I bought the current version 2 years ago.

tedades says on April 3rd, 2007 at 2:31 pm

Web-applications have a future, but software and your OS are still used.
Even if you boot your computer over the internet, there will be software needed to do the booting process.

The reason why software will be used over the internet is simply money, and not because its better software.
You have to pay per use, or pay per month. And its hard to copy online software, so microsoft will get even more money.
And what browser will be 99% compatible with microsoft webapplications?
Its the MS-IE browser.

And you can’t always use software over the internet because:
-only a few people have internet on this planet
-internet cost money
-not every place has internet
-internet isn’t as fast as local storage yet
-internet isn’t safe
-not suitable for real-time applications

And I agree that current design of most software is old fashioned, just like most idea’s in general.

Peter-Frank Spierenburg says on April 3rd, 2007 at 2:52 pm

Are people really willing to store their documents on someone else’s server? Emails to grandma are one thing, but if one balances one’s checkbook in Google Spreadsheet, should they not be concerned about privacy?

Ric says on April 3rd, 2007 at 3:05 pm

It isn’t foolproof but the wildcard term
Ben* should return Ben’s , Benjamin or even beneath – works for me anyway – remember the * is your friend in many if not all searchs

Hannes says on April 3rd, 2007 at 3:20 pm

What about the privacy, hm?
And bandwidth.
And backups.
And customizations.

Simon North says on April 3rd, 2007 at 3:21 pm

I understand totally, this is the main reason why I have started the web2explorer project (http://web2explorer.wordpress.com/), I feel that there is no longer the need to spend £200 on an office suite when Google Docs + Spreadsheets, or Zoho or any other of the hundreds of online office suites can do just as good a job. Online software is the future and this is what the web2explorer project is about.

Matt says on April 3rd, 2007 at 3:25 pm

Very true points, but what about those who are gaming? I accept that you said these are your needs, but this is a common PC use.

Surely there are better non-Google products out there, too? Like WordPress, which you identified over Blogger.

I think you could get away without using Firefox, too. IE has plugins, and surely you can live without all of those FF ones?

prakash says on April 3rd, 2007 at 3:30 pm

For organizing your photos, music and videos (and more), and sharing them with the people you know, Multiply (http://multiply.com) is the best there is. Multiply lets me control precisely who gets to view and access my content and offers unlimited storage space.

Leo Babauta says on April 3rd, 2007 at 3:35 pm

There’ve been a lot of very interesting viewpoints here that I’d like to address. First of all, thank you all for sharing your perspective — differences of opinion are what make this medium what it is.

One I’d like to address are all the comments about the article being a Google ad. This is a fair point, as most of the apps I use are Google apps … but that’s just a personal preference based on my experiences with different applications. I’m not recommending it for everyone. I’ve tried a number of different apps, and most of them just didn’t work as well or as quickly as the ones from Google. If there are better ones out there, you can bet I’ll give them a try. Are there better email, feed reader, word processing or spreadsheet apps online? I haven’t found them, and the ones from Google meet my needs.

Next, I’d like to point out, as others have, that my article didn’t say that I don’t need an OS anymore. But it doesn’t matter which OS I use because I barely ever do anything with the OS or offline apps anymore.

Lastly, I’d like to point out that this wasn’t a manifesto for everyone to drop their hard drives or off-line applications. It’s a personal experience that I wanted to share, and I think that my experience points to a trend of the future. You can disagree with that, and show me how that’s wrong, but you can’t negate my personal experience … as I said in the article, it won’t work for everybody, especially not right now, until online apps improve. But for my personal use, they’re good enough even right now. I don’t play games, I don’t develop programs, I don’t use IM, I don’t need a Microsoft Exchange Server, or any other of the things mentioned. If you use these things, my approach won’t work for you.

I just wanted to clear those points up. I thank everyone for their comments so far, and especially for those who said nice things about the article and those who provided links and suggestions that have added a lot to the discussion.

Harold says on April 3rd, 2007 at 3:52 pm

I’m sick of people who make proclamations about how the “new OS” is the browser, or the Internet, or Google, or whatever. I’ve found that most of these people can’t define “operating system” — they don’t even know what an OS is, so how can they say that Firefox (or whatever) is their OS? “The main reason for an OS is to manage your files.” That’s the funniest thing I’ve read today.

Meh says on April 3rd, 2007 at 4:24 pm

Meh.

Keep drinking that kool aid.

Let me know I can play World of Warcraft on ‘Firefox OS’.

Steve says on April 3rd, 2007 at 4:40 pm

I agree with the general point being made. I am increasingly using web sites instead of local computers for basic functions (in my case mainly Yahoo, Flickr, and del.icio.us, but it is of course up to individual preference). And for IM, I have recently started to use http://www.meebo.com, which is looking good so far as long as I just want text (no webcam etc). My main concern is security, which is why I have not yet got into Google and its wordprocessor.

Hip Hop says on April 3rd, 2007 at 4:46 pm

Great write up I will definitely use some of these in the future

Yakito says on April 3rd, 2007 at 5:00 pm

Hmm.. well, it depends on what u need… I use the above aplications but I also need some software for my day to day work

Gordon says on April 3rd, 2007 at 5:03 pm

too much Google. And, as you are a firefox fan, why did you not mention ajex13 http://us.ajax13.com/en/index.jsp

Chap - a - lappa says on April 3rd, 2007 at 5:43 pm

I challenge you to write an article about uses you have found for google spreadsheets since you are promoting them. I do quite a bit of work in excel, and I honestly tried giving google spreadsheets a chance. The experience was awful, even for the most basic of needs a spreadsheet would address.

I’d take Excel (or grudgingly OO.org Calc) over Google Spreadsheet any day.

Kai Hendry says on April 3rd, 2007 at 6:04 pm

You should try Webconverger.com

It is basically the Firefox OS you described, derived from Debian.

TomC says on April 3rd, 2007 at 6:20 pm

Leo

Can you share a screenshot of your Google/ig page to get a feel for how you are maximising it for effective/efficient use

Thanks

TomC

Scott says on April 3rd, 2007 at 6:42 pm

Ric,

* does nothing for me in gmail search. Voll* does not find Volleyball.

Count yourself lucky.

TuF says on April 3rd, 2007 at 6:46 pm

As some have predicted, users will be more and more reliant on the net soon enough. :)

Ryan says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:29 pm

WTF… ummm latency and crappy apps – not for me!

Leo Babauta says on April 3rd, 2007 at 7:38 pm

Thanks everyone for the continued feedback. A couple responses:

@Average Reader: lol.

@TomC: I can’t share a screenshot of my Google homepage here (and it might feel a little weird to share something that personal), but just to give you an idea, I have two tabs set up: one for my daily work uses, and another for my blog. The daily work tab has widgets for Gmail, Gcal, Google docs & spreadsheets, Google Reader (I know, I know, overkill with all the google, but again, they’re the best I’ve found so far), as well as a to-do list, sticky notes for any random notes, and a “better bookmarks” that has links to my daily journal, my story ideas list, Tracks, Picasa and my MediaMax storage. My blog tab has links to my WP login, my host login, the various stats and rankings services I like to monitor, the various ad services I use, various free photo websites, and a Google Analytics widget. That’s it — no blogs or games or fun stuff, so I’m not distracted.

@Chap-a-lappa: As I said in the article, Google spreadsheets isn’t as good as excel or openoffice. It’s not close. But for simple spreadsheet uses, it’s fine — and I realized that all my spreadsheet uses, on a daily basis at least, are simple ones. I have spreadsheets that I use to track the various services I subscribe to (with login names — I don’t have the password listed here, but basically a key to show me how I varied my password for that particular service), a spreadsheet for my spending plan, another to track my blog earnings, another to track free-lance invoices, and another to track my site’s performance on different ranking services. None of these requires anything but very simple columns, rows and sums. For more complicated stuff, you’ll probably want an off-line spreadsheet program. I believe that online spreadsheet programs (like google’s and probably others) will improve in the next few years, but that remains to be seen.

Thanks for all the comments, everyone!

haruhi suzumiya says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:25 pm

I am bored waiting for connection to get through my emails…Argh, NO! Network is down..How can I access the Internet…now, I could not do my work because everything is done online! Damn, I wish there are offline applications to that I can submit my work and sync later! Stupid!

hikaricore says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:50 pm

I hope you are banned from reproducing.

Horseshit says on April 3rd, 2007 at 8:51 pm

This is absurd. The premise you don’t need an operating system. So OSX vs Windows vs Linux will be a moot point in the future. Then the whole article taslks about software, not an online OS replacement. You can’t use all of these cool online programs without an OS to boot up your computer and connect to these sites. The article was informative but misleading.

Allen Bair says on April 3rd, 2007 at 9:48 pm

the problem with depending entirely on web based applications is quite simple, what happens if you don’t have an internet connection? Like it or not, while most people take the internet for granted now, it isn’t that hard to lose connectivity. I am reminded by this every time my isp is having problems with their servers.

The other problem is security. You don’t have final control over your own storage space. The IT guys in some server room hundreds of miles away do. At least you can be careful with your own hard drive, or it’s your fault if it dies. You have no control over a remote storage device.
Also, you have no idea who could slip a disk into that remote server and copy your files off it. At least you know who comes in your own front door.

Ultimately, while yes, it is more convenient to use the web based apps, there is a trade off and it’s one quite frankly I personally wouldn’t be willing to risk unless I was forced to. I truly hope this isn’t the wave of the future, because it is, ultimately, a foolish one.

Jeb says on April 3rd, 2007 at 10:25 pm

Well, thats exactly what Microsfot was trying to avoid when they extinguished Netscape.
Netscape knew applications could be accessed through the browser and storage as well, turning one of MS’s biggest advantages to nothing, since you could access the same apps through a browser whether it was one Linux, Mac or Windows or whatever.
The times finally here (not for games.. of course) and all MS did was give themselves several more years, and screw over all of us while we were held back technologically. I can only imagine what would be if that company hadn’t crushed almost every real innovator in the last 20 years for their convenience.

Leo Babauta says on April 3rd, 2007 at 11:23 pm

Great points, Jeb … I don’t think Microsoft’s day of reckoning has come yet, but the trends don’t look good for MS in the long run, what with open source OSes and software, online software, and the trend for less bloated and more user-friendly interfaces.

Bob says on April 4th, 2007 at 2:59 am

This is stupid. It might work for an average Joe who only uses the computer for word processing, email and surfing, but what about us who depend on certain specialized software for our work? Is there an online Java IDE? Or even an online compiler? Would I want to have to send all my source over the web constantly? What if Google one day decides to just quit? Not likely, but what if. All your documents are in the hands of someone else.

I like online apps, but I would never trust them to handle everything for me.

stomfi says on April 4th, 2007 at 3:40 am

The idea would be good if the web was a peer to peer web with fragmented redundant file storage, with each node a machine leased to the user by an ISP and controlled by a secure userspace OS like Plan 9.

Client Server architecture is not robust and was originally planned as a short term migration step from master slave to peer to peer. Ask SUN how their old motto was meant to work.

A world wide peer to peer network would offer supercomputing grid services utilising nodes in the sleep zones for use by those awake.

This web architecture is robust as the bulk of a user’s data is available even with the loss of a localised area of nodes.

It gives users the ability to run their own specialised applications like CAD, development, virtual worlds, and with the supercomputing aspect, sophisticated human interfaces.

I gives ISPs the ability to run a secure web, free from malware and spam.

Telecommunications enterprises need to make money. What better way of securing ongoing income, yet being able to freely supply the highest speeds, by leasing users a peer to peer node or a software lease which will connect via a portable wireless device.

Only when we have a peer to peer world wide web will online computing be robust enough for effective use.

Imagol4 says on April 4th, 2007 at 4:23 am

Good points for the frugal, minimalist lifestyle. Except for one minor point. Firefox (my favorite browser) is only a browser. It cannot be loaded onto a PC that does not have an operating system. No piece of software can. Now, you could load up FreeBSD, or Linux, if you still wanted to go with the Free stuff. Except that you can’t get on the internet to download these files unless you have a PC with internet access, which requires a browser to see anything, and, oh yeah, an OS so the browser will work.
You, and the other liberal commies that think MicroSoft, or any other “Big” company is evil by virtue of being successful really piss me off. You don’t think things through, you “emotionalize” everything! You have the ultimate sour grapes attitude, because you didn’t get rich off of it, you think you deserve the spoils of other peoples hard work. IF you worked hard you wouldn’t have time to have a “blog”, you might actually have time to spend with those six kids so they don’t end up like you. You sick freak.

G Fernandes says on April 4th, 2007 at 4:35 am

The points mentioned are workable in some scenarios. It’s really the equivalent of the Thin-Client paradigm – and we all know what happened to that.

The important point that the article seems to miss is – personal data and it’s security.

How comfortable are you with your personal data living on someone else’s server, with no control over how long the data will be retained or what the data may be used for?

G Fernandes says on April 4th, 2007 at 4:46 am

Imagol4:
[QUOTE]You, and the other liberal commies that think MicroSoft, or any other “Big” company is evil by virtue of being successful really piss me off[/QUOTE]

Now let me try to guess whether:
1. you are 5 years old
2. you live under a rock on the moon.

(2) can’t be true because you’ve read (and responded to) this article – which implies you have access to the internet.

Therefore you must be all of 5 years old.

How do I come to that conclusion?

Here is some supporting evidence:
1. You obviously don’t know about Sybase and how Microsoft killed them
2. You obviously don’t know about OS/2 and what Microsoft did to IBM to kill OS/2
3. You obviously don’t know about Netscape and what Microsoft did to kill them – of course Microsoft didn’t count on Firefox (ha!)
4. You obviously missed the US DoJ anti-trust case against Microsoft – you might want to do a google search and read it to enlighten yourself before shooting your mouth off and ending up with your whole right foot in your mouth. But of course, since you’re all of 5 years old, we will forgive you for eating your shoe.
5. And you just missed Microsoft’s shenanigans in Massachussets.

However, to console yourself, all of this information is freely available on the internet from reputed sources (i.e. non-Microsoft sources who’ve never been known to lie or spread misinformation). And, you are living in times when Microsoft is pushing a sham of a standard called Office Open XML! So you have a good chance of witnessing some of their infamous shenanigans.

So now, would you like a candy, kiddo?

ERM says on April 4th, 2007 at 9:16 am

So, Smart Guy, what happens if you don’t have an internet connection? With no hard drive and no software how useful is that computer on the road or in an airplane?

l3utterfish says on April 4th, 2007 at 12:52 pm

I found it quite interesting!

Thankx

tom says on April 4th, 2007 at 1:40 pm

So does that mean all computer games will be playable online soon could I play Call of Duty 3 online? answer NO!.

If I have a laptop and don’t have Internet connection I can’t wright a word dock that’s just silly, what happens if the web site goes down.

I don’t think the web will ever replace all desktop application’s but will help those that don’t have the software on their PC’s which is why it’s there.

neil says on April 4th, 2007 at 2:49 pm

also – try this: http://desktoptwo.com/

Hugh says on April 4th, 2007 at 4:21 pm

What about using a live distro and storing your changes on line or usb pen drive…puppy does this…

Jack says on April 5th, 2007 at 12:02 am

A bit off-topicish but to the person who said they can’t get WoW running on Linux… Try Crossover. It works brilliantly and I run WoW/TBC with no problems at all.

Privacy says on April 5th, 2007 at 7:16 am

And exactly where in this perfect scheme does privacy come in ?

Entrust my life to Google et al?

I think not.

I for one am far from interested.

Ranjit Wassan says on April 5th, 2007 at 10:50 am

Iv just read about half the comments and Iv had enough…

The guy in the article makes some very good points. Yes we (ones in the know) all saw this coming years ago but I think its good to talk about because knowing something is coming and realising its here are two very different things.

Whether you agree or not I love the google apps, i constantly find myself using them all the time because Im nearly always online. Now I agree with the privacy thing and the out of business thing but seriously who are you going to trust. You have to trust someone these days, like someone pointed out about traditional mail just getting forwarded to you, its always going to be an issue.

At least google gives you some options. One of the most under-talked features of google web apps (all as far as i know) is that they allow you to use https!!

Yes I know its just your connection to the local server thats encrytped but hell thats enough. Yahoo and M$ dont offer this. Its just another example of who is taking this stuff seriously and who isn’t.

Who the hell is going to put all of their stuff in ZoHO. Dont get me wrong the lads know what they are doing but they are going after the big boy, google with nearly all of their stuff. What lies ahead for them and many other, acquisition or death!!! either way an uncertain future for you stuff..

Backing up emails – Gmail to local outlook. Forward with a filter all mail you get in gmail you a yahoo and live mail account. loggin to them about once a month and theres you backup done!

Tangent isn’t the word. Im out!!

Matt says on April 5th, 2007 at 11:52 am

No one has mentioned YouOS yet – a fledgling attempt to move all of your desktop applications to the browser.

https://www.youos.com/

Dave says on April 5th, 2007 at 3:51 pm

I disagree with this article, as an Operating System’s main function is to provide a software layer in which applications can talk to the hardware. Firefox is an application, that works within the operating system; I do agree that now that applications have moved to the web, that the operating system is less of a factor.

Saying that a browser can be an operating system, is a statement of how the someone truely understands very little of what an operating system does.

Ricky says on April 5th, 2007 at 5:36 pm

GSpace (firefox plugin) has an mp3 function. It’s not exactly iTunes, but it works.

Luis says on April 5th, 2007 at 11:33 pm

Mainframes… Anyone???

Currently companies are wasting money with powerful computers for every employee who just need Word, Excel, Outlook, CRT, etc…

We are going back to the mainframe model. Internet may be part of it or not due to many constraints and a good example as many people have already said is security.

Robert C says on April 6th, 2007 at 12:41 pm

The day after I read this article, I read about a computer that would perfectly suit the environment you’re talking about, for about $50.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/pcs.....249471.php

JJ says on April 6th, 2007 at 2:11 pm

When you talk of privacy lost using Google and that’s why you wouldn’t consider the author’s approach, think again. There is so much information leaving your home PC about you each time you click in a browser it’s scary. Even if you block outbound traffic with a bi-directional firewall a lot of info about you getting out. The point: if you use the Internet you loose your privacy!

Brian says on April 6th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

OBOE:

The online music locker with unlimited storage space.

Catches:
1) Free account has a 10mb per file limit (although most mp3s are smaller than that).
2) Free account is ad supported. (ADP+Firefox seems to get rid of the ads)
3) No/Limited customer support for free accounts.
4) Your account starts with a limited amount of space (mine started at 1GB) and then you get an email when you have been upgraded to unlimited space. (I received unlimited space within two hours of signing up.)

You can stream your music from the site or download it to your computer. They have also developed several music player plug-ins… but i tend to just stream the music with their online “miniplayer.”

It’s a great service… I have all my music on there now.

Brian says on April 6th, 2007 at 8:15 pm

Sorry for the double post… meant to include a link to OBOE:

http://www.mp3tunes.com/

Enjoy!

David Precious says on April 9th, 2007 at 11:52 am

One of the big problems with a hard drive is the very real possibility that it will crash sometime during its lifetime. And unless you’ve been good at backing up your files, you will lose that data. With all my files saved online, there’s no need to back up these files, which can be time-consuming and troublesome

Er, I’d strongly recommend keeping your own backups. If your files are of any importance to you, you can’t entrust them solely to some online service which may well not have suitable backups, and could cease at any time.

If your data is of importance and you don’t take your own backups, then be prepared to lose it, and don’t complain when you do.

D4saken1 says on April 9th, 2007 at 1:01 pm

All you say is true, if you want to depend on someone else to provide you with this software. Yes lets put everything on the web, lets right our messages or deepest thoughts. Yes let save our files,pictures, lives on the web. Yes where they can be scrutinized by anyone with the ability to do so. Or worse yet destroyed by that same ilk. Not to mention the eye of the government which increasingly spies on us in the name of home land security. Yes, Yes lets listen to what he has to say! YEA RIGHT!!!!

jhs5577 says on April 10th, 2007 at 5:01 am

You know….for someone who wants to “simplify” their life, in some ways you make it harder. You buy in to the idea that the web will always be there when you want it (Oh and yes…we can always trust technology!!!!!) And then you have a foundational thought that anything that is easier is better….Right….Oh and don’t forget, while downgrading Microsoft, you demonstrate an addiction to Goggle…. Your way is better?????????? Oh hey, I have waterfront property in Utah for sale!!!!!

Are you interested?

Adnan says on April 15th, 2007 at 10:59 am

A solution to your MP3 problem could be http://www.pandora.com or http://www.last.fm

None are as good as old-fashioned MP3s, but they are simple, easy to use, and have a large library.

Robert says on April 18th, 2007 at 9:17 am

Free Picasaweb albums have a size limit of 1GB (ie ~200 files). You have to pay for more storage. So uploading your entire photo collection for free is not an option.

Leo Babauta says on April 18th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

I uploaded my entire photo collection to the free Picasaweb — well over 200 fotos, probably well over a thousand — and I’m not even using half of my storage.

Daniel says on April 23rd, 2007 at 11:04 am

It’s certainly a cool idea and it makes sense for people who don’t own/can’t afford computers. I can see how this lifestyle will catch on in Europe and Asia.

Still, I wouldn’t want all my personal data being at the mercy and control of a corporation. My most sensitive things should be safe away from them if I so choose. Plus they’d have a completely open window into my whole life and with something like Patriot Act a simple mouseclick would give it to law enforcement. At the risk of sounding alarmist, it would be very easy for a pre-fascist government like mine to use and abuse this computing lifestyle.

On the other hand, having a tiny OS, like Puppy Linux, that can fit onto a USB stick and load readily onto any CPU, and using the online options you’ve described, there would be no more ‘computer ate my homework’ excuses! I think it’s a fantastic idea but with a very obvious and frightening downside.

Robert says on April 27th, 2007 at 3:49 am

@Leo: Would you be able to calculate the average photo file size? I you use any modern digicam, yours will likely be 4 to 5 MB. Not?

AgentSully says on May 7th, 2007 at 7:24 pm

Are you not scared of not having a backup for your files? What’s the solution to that?

Frank says on June 1st, 2007 at 12:22 am

Man.. you sure love Google, dont ya?! Not worried about privacy issues? Doesn’t take much for stuff to leak onto the internet, and with GOogle, its just a risk.. you take by trusting someone else.

As for browser, I agree… but there are tonnes of things you can do with MS Word… or OpenOffice for that matter. Google docs is still gonna be severely limited!

Matt Keegan says on July 6th, 2007 at 4:45 pm

Firefox rocks, that is all that needs to be said about it. Yes, doing it all online is changing the scope of operating systems, rendering them nearly obsolete. Cool!

Ollie says on August 2nd, 2007 at 3:12 pm

As far as online storage goes, you should check out mydatabus.com…5GB free storage, public file link generator, photo album creation/sharing, online file format conversion, facebook.com integration…it really is a one stop shop for file hosting/storing.

Billy says on August 6th, 2007 at 8:33 am

Very eye opening insights into moving all your desktop apps and files to the online world. Definitely on trend as an early adopter.

HoboBen says on August 27th, 2007 at 3:42 am

What happens when your ISP has some downtime (noooooo!)
Cheers,
Hobo :-)

waaaaa says on September 17th, 2007 at 5:10 pm

you’re fucked if your internet goes down then

msersen says on October 28th, 2007 at 2:28 pm

While I see where your coming from and partially agree… I gotta say, try to get Firefox to access your boot sector or manage peripherals. Firefox is not an OS and I assume it never will be an OS. I’m actually surprised how many people are like “yea your right” I guess most people just don’t understand the difference between a client/browser (oh yea Opera blows Firefox out the water) and an operating system (go Linux!) Until you can have a (server side) version of Firefox running that can boot another machine over WAN and handle all interrupt requests and blah blah blah I’m rambling.

Pakapala says on May 7th, 2008 at 7:17 am

Leo Babauta wrote:
“Next, I’d like to point out, as others have, that my article didn’t say that I don’t need an OS anymore. But it doesn’t matter which OS I use because [u]I barely ever do anything with the OS[/u] or offline apps anymore.”

The article is interesting and I found it useful for people who would like to do things like you, but the core statement is flawed in that you have the wrong idea of what an OS is. In the sentence I quoted above for example, saying that you barely do anything anymore with the OS is false. The very fact that you go online to do your personal tasks on the net proves that you use the OS (whether Windows, OS X or Linux) consistantly. The OS is not the applications that you are replacing with online versions, the OS is that interface that starts up when you open your device (PC, laptop, PDA, etc…)
To say that there will come a time when it will not matter what OS we use is not getting the definition of OS right. You always need an OS to do all the things that you mentioned in your article, and though casual users are not aware of what the OS is, the war between them have no end, imo.

prakash says on January 19th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

as u wish

Loverentiy says on January 19th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

Yeah msersen speaks the truth. It’s a insane fantasy but that what I’ve been looking for. A basic OS that can run web browser, e-mail client, media player and maybe one or 2 tweeker apps (can’t leave without my Proxomitron)
gOS seems to take the spot but it have been struck down by reviews as unsuccessful Ubuntu distro…

Ark says on February 23rd, 2009 at 7:18 pm

The Firefox OS should be came with the Sunbird and Thunderbird.

Adding some more:

Gaming. You can play many Flash games with Firefox.
Movies. You can watch them in YouTube.

—————–
How you can do with FF shell?

Billy Jack says on May 4th, 2009 at 11:25 pm

you obviously have not experienced the notorious Google Account Disabled- for no reason whatsoever and no explanation given, just a three field form and no response from the big g. I used to love Google for all the great apps in the cloud… but when the cloud ceases to exist on their whim, everything disappears… I would recommend you constantly back everything google related OFF the cloud as well, and then if and when it occurs, you are not devastated.

Billy Jack says on May 4th, 2009 at 11:36 pm

and in case you are wondering… I’ve never spammed, I don’t do porn whatsoever, and I used to keep all my account logins in Google Sites, send files and craigslist postings to my gmail account, use google docs for everything i used to use office for, calendar for everything i used to use outlook for. I was a serious google evangelist and have even professionally installed google apps on several clients domains. One day my google sites went disabled for no reason, doing a search i came across the same thing for gmail users, docs users, calendar users, etc. i’ve been backing everything else up like crazy and about to put everything up on my own VPS via Open Source apps that accomplish the same things. I may keep the remaining google accounts open for posterity, but never anything mission critical again. Much more peace of mind then…

nate says on May 29th, 2009 at 4:55 am

I wouldn’t go counting out having your own hardware, as there is a company that has figured out how to grow diamonds (they plan to make ultra powerful CPUs with them), and it’s only a matter of time before new hardware will come out to match the latest developments in network cabling. As well they have figured out how to squeeze insane amounts of data into very small drives, so like I said I wouldn’t count out the personal computer just yet.

Hooper says on July 10th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

Cloudware is the Devil!
If I don’t have control over it–and with cloudware you control nothing–then I’m not using it. I have 3TB worth of hard drive space and I can envision needing more in the future. One small example of why web cloudware can’t replace installed software is in editing large raw images and/or video. Even the fastest internet isn’t fast enough to be used as swap space… and even if it was, the network would grind to a halt.

Das says on July 15th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

I think it’s really stupid to trust your safety using online applications. I can’t believe people would do things like this, really dumb.

I’d never use an online office app, you never know who can get at your data…

Blake says on September 7th, 2009 at 10:46 pm

Programs and a hard drive won’t be obsolete for a loong time. In order to access everything online, people need to have a fast internet connection. And where I lived as a kid, those people are still on dial up. Also, think of the internet speed you would need to play games. If you are a gamer, you will never give up your hard drive and OS. And with having everything online, you don’t know who is looking through your stuff. While you can have people look at stuff on your hard drive, if you know anything about computers that won’t be happening. It was an interesting read, but those days of cloud computing are a long way off.